Why a Comfortable Life is Preventing You having the Relationship You Want

In this episode, Kate & Eric explore how comfort and avoidance can hinder growth and connection in relationships, sharing their personal experiences of navigating discomfort to create deeper connections.

Topics:
➡️ Aligning personal visions with shared goals in relationships.
➡️ Overcoming fear of judgment and embracing authenticity.
➡️ Using discomfort as a catalyst for growth and connection.

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TRANSCRIPT:

Eric MacDougall
I think this is why we decided to really bring the topic of this episode up, is that we have both been focusing on our own things. You know, you've been focused on your life, I've been focused on my life. And we sit and we do this podcast together. And I think that, you know, the catalyst for a lot of this was, like, I had a vision for 2025, of like, when I would do my business, and how I wanted to take either this podcast or a podcast and a YouTube channel, and kind of think things the next level to serve more people in the world, right? And part of me had brought up to you, of like, hey, like, Are you with me on this? Or no,

Kate MacDougall
right? Yeah, because I think you could see that, that that study line that me, like, you can see it when that happens in my life. You're like, Oh,

Eric MacDougall
well. And I think that you also, you know, when I look at my experience, or when I experience you, a lot of it is like, I want to do this thing. Really excited, right? You did your yoga certification lately. So it's like, now, this is my thing. And it's like, okay, cool. So I guess, like, the podcast is not your thing. Maybe you can do both, I don't know, but maybe not the level. You know, I remember, like, when you wrote a book, you're like, I'm I'm doing the kids book thing, like, I'm doing literacy, and then it was like, I'm doing, like, crystals and essential oils, and I'm, like, doing the whole shackle product thing. And I get it like you're figuring yourself out. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think I had gotten to a point where I was like, Okay, I have to make a decision whether or not I want to continue to do this with Kate, and that is going to help me get to where I want to go, or I'm going to do this on my own right. And we had a very quick conversation about it, and you can kind of tell your experience. Your experience of it, but it came to the point where it was like, okay, cool. Like, we're gonna end this podcast. And we sat down last week and it was like, things came to a head,

Kate MacDougall
yeah, we actually, like, recorded an episode of a short episode, kind of thing, goodbye kind of thing, thank you. And throughout the episode, I was like, I'm literally just bullshitting on the mic here, and I that doesn't feel authentic to me, that doesn't feel right. That's not what I want out of this podcast. I don't want to lie to people. So when I'm like, Yeah, you know, my I'm looking forward to the next steps and where this, you know, ending this podcast is going to give me the opportunity to say yes to other things like, and I'm sitting there thinking, like, like, like, and I'm thinking, Well, I'm not done with this podcast. I'm not done with this journey. I haven't even, like, scratches the surface of it yet. Like, I feel like there's still so much more that I can do, and if I only commit my time and energy to it, more like, I can fulfill that, and I can fulfill that, like, want and desire to help people. And I think for me, like, when you had first brought it up, you said, Hey, like, you know, I would like for us to bring this to the next level. And you know, is that something you're willing to do, and here's kind of like, what it's going to take from both of us, from me and you, but it's going to take a lot more than what you're giving right now, yeah, for my vision, from your for your vision, yeah, yeah. And so I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll do it. I'll do it. And then, and then I got scared. I was like, Oh my gosh. Like, what if I don't do it right? What if I don't do it the exact way Eric wants to do it? What if? What if? What if? What if? What if? What if? And then I realized, as we were recording last week, and then I had a huge meltdown afterwards.

Eric MacDougall
I think that's important to talk about in this episode as well. Is like the meltdown you had over the last week, the disconnection we've experienced. Yeah, there were. That meant I've been feeling, yeah, I think these are all really important things, because, you know, the title of this episode really is about how comfort is prevent and I think, like avoidance that you have been doing, that I have been doing, has led us

Kate MacDougall
here, and the avoidance we're doing, and the reason we're avoiding doing things is because we're trying to stay in that comfortable, numb, feeling like familiar. It's not too much, it's not too little. It's just there. We're just there. We're coasting. We're, you know, and so for me, what I realized is often what I was doing and what I do, and what I've done for a very long time, is I do things that I think you want me to do, or I do things that I think my parents want me to do, or my co workers or my friends like I there's not a lot of like, well, what do I want to do? And there's not even thought about that. It's just like, oh, Eric wants to record a podcast. Okay, I'll do it in the way that I think he wants me to do it. Instead of being like, I'm Kate, I have a voice, and I can be authentically me on this podcast, and I have been, but I can be more. And I can, you know, really take more space when it comes to this podcast, come up with talk topics, do more when it comes to it, and I've just kind of been holding back in fear of disappointing you and not doing it in the way that you want to do it. And, oh, I hope that you know the way I do it is going to align with his vision. But when we think about it, and when we talked about it, it was like, Well, what about your vision? Kate, yeah, and I think like that that was the conversation was like, Kate, it's not about like, can you do the way I want to do it is I want you to want to do this podcast and have a vision for it. I want you to want to do this in a way that you want to do it, not in the way that you think I want it. Yeah, and, and that's what it was becoming. It was kind of becoming, like your project, and I was just there, yep. And that didn't feel right to you, because that's not the type of man and husband and podcaster you want to be. And really, in the moment, it felt okay for me. It felt like, Oh, this is easy. I don't want to get on record. It's fun. It's, you know, I'm having fun. It was good, but there was always this like, ick. There was always this gut feeling of like, like, that was good, but like, that's it. Like, it was always this gut feeling. And I think that gut feeling came from like, you have potential, and you can do more, and you can say more, and it's very important, and it was very important for me to have that, like, Aha, like,

Eric MacDougall
yeah. And I think for me, you know, one of the big challenges that I experienced was I so for me, it's really important to be around people who I believe are authentic, right? That leads, I have really a lot of trouble trusting people, yeah, who I don't believe are being true to themselves, right? For whatever my own baggage, and I realized that, you know, that's even something that we work in in our relationship, right? Your people pleasing tendencies set me off because, yeah, because I think that in the end, you're only you're when it really comes down to it, you're not going to make choices for you. You're going to make choices to be liked by others, yes,

Kate MacDougall
right? And whether that works for our relationship or not is irrelevant. Is irrelevant? It's if this makes another person happy, Eric's going to be under the bus. Sorry, yeah,

Eric MacDougall
and again, like, that's not you all the time, right? That's like an adaptation that you've created over time, because you're realizing it's a safety question, yeah, by conforming to others, you get the love you want. And that's kind of, you know, that happened in your home growing up, and happened in our relationship, and is still showing up in our relationship sometimes. And I think that's really what I challenged you with, you know, I said I'm unwilling to do a podcast with somebody who is not themselves. You know what? I really said, like, you're a woman, I'm not a woman. What's it like to be a woman in relationship today? What's it like to be a mother in relationship today? What's it I said, I'm not going to speak to that. And what I've realized is that oftentimes you're either conforming to me or you're conforming to what you think people want to hear.

Kate MacDougall
Right, right? Yeah. And I think there's a lot of it that is, like, afraid of judgment. It's, of course, yeah. And I think that, you know, if you listen back to our first episodes, there's definitely like, Kate the shy like, don't want to say too much, don't want to open up too much. And with time, I've learned to open up, and I've learned that, like, this is a safe place for me to open up. And if people want to comment about my life and my personal business and insult me and whatever. Like, I've just kind of learned to be like, That's okay. Like, I'm not gonna please to I'm not gonna please everybody. Not everybody's gonna be happy with my stories and my backgrounds. Some people are gonna think that I'm a drama queen, and that's okay. But in the end, this is authentically me. This is who I am. Love it or leave it, and it's fine. But. Yeah, I realize now, like, how much this podcast impacts people, and how much it does help people. And, you know, how many listeners rely on us every day to, like, be in their ear balls, earbuds, and have those conversations and have those like, fun, you know, topics that help them learn and help them grow alongside us. Because the reality is, and I think that that's kind of where I got lost. And I think a lot of experts do get lost in this, as we were expected to put on this face or this front of, like, I think, I think we, think we're expected to put on this face, this front of, like, I'm an expert, been there, done that, got the t shirt. Like, I'm no longer there. Yeah, I've overcome, I've overcome it. But it's like, no, I'm, I'm in the trenches, like, I'm in it. Like, yeah, and it's, it's healthier, and it's a lot easier, and it doesn't sting as much, but I'm still learning every day, and still trying to find my voice every day, and still trying to figure out who is Kate and what does she offer to this world kind of thing, right? And I think that that is something that I was kind of waiting for, you know, one day I'll find my voice, and then I'll take more space on this podcast, but it's like I can look for my voice and try to find my voice and still be on this podcast. I

Eric MacDougall
saw, I don't know if it's just me, but I saw you were getting kind of emotional there

Kate MacDougall
for a bit. No, that's just you. Well, I'm not getting emotional. I think

Eric MacDougall
this is really important to recognize right, that we often create these ways of relating, and everyone does this right. We're human beings, and so we adapt. And oftentimes we adapt to survive. And if com, if we believe there's going to be conflict, if we believe that our partner might withhold love from us, we're gonna change ourselves or try to manipulate them in order to continue to get what we want and to feel secure, right? We're talking about secure connection here and a lot of couples. And what we're starting to realize now is like, oh, like, you know what, exactly what you're saying, which is, I have been hiding my voice and adapting because I thought that that was going to help me get what I want. And in our relationship, what typically happens is, and that's probably why the universe brought us together, is that that actually creates distance for me? Yeah, so I actually have a really hard time with that. And so what's happening is, you in order for us to be in a healthier relational dynamic, you actually have to stop adapting, and you have to get uncomfortable and be different, yeah? And it's not, it's not to say that you have to do that, but it's like, if you want to create genuine connection with me, you have to do that, and for me, for my side, right? And this is kind of what we talked about with the podcast, and kind of moving forward, and kind of being in relationship with you and all that stuff is like you. All that stuff is like, I have to risk because sometimes you say things and I have to trust that they're real, yeah, and even though sometimes you say something, you're going to do something and then don't end up doing it, which happens, we're all human out of fear, yeah, I have to then come back and say, Eric, you have to open up your heart to this, and you have to give Kate the benefit of the doubt. You can't keep trying to get her to be perfect. You can't try to get her to jump through every single one of your hoops forever and finally say, Okay, now I trust you,

Kate MacDougall
right? And also understanding that, like we have different journeys and some things, you know, we talk about the tolerance threshold threshold, threshold, the tolerance window, the window of tolerance. So what we're able to tolerate in our comfort when it comes to that and like, for example, for you, like you could be in a very uncomfortable situation, a very uncomfortable conversation and still manage to keep your emotions in check. And, you know, face the music and be like, this is uncomfortable, but like, I'm not afraid to like, you know, snap back. I'm not afraid to fight back like, like, with my words and like, you know, and in a very calm and respectful way. Whereas I'm like, somebody's like, how's your day, and I'm like, Oh my God. Like my What do I have to tell discomfort is like at a zero. So what we realized, you know, through therapy, through work, and through just, even just our conversations together, is until I am willing to grow my discomfort threshold until I'm ready to become a little more comfort with comfortable with discomfort in my life, not much is going to change. Okay,

Eric MacDougall
so this is really important, because some, I'm sure a lot of people are listening, and they're probably taking this idea. Of like championing my ability to hang out in the discomfort. No, and, and I really want to be careful here, because that's not what we're saying. No, we're not saying that Kate's tolerance for, you know, having less tolerance for discomfort is somehow less good, or whatever. No, yeah, what's really important understand is that all of us, we are doing what is familiar to us, and so this is kind of what happens in our dynamic. Is because I'm the anxiously attached person and you're the avoidant. I'm usually the one that's like bringing stuff up right? Because I don't like not connect, so I'm constantly like needing to connect right in some way or another. And my window of tolerance is very low for, like, just everything being even keel, for, like, being neutral. So I either need it to be like, okay, it needs to be awesome, and I need to feel super connected all the time. And if I don't feel that, something's wrong. And so if you think about it like the you know, think that sound wave mine hits in an extreme so it's like, everything's awesome. I feel super connected. We're having great sex, we're talking, we're opening up, we're talking all the time. It's amazing. And when it's not like that, I'm like, something's wrong. We need to deal with this. Yeah, there's

Kate MacDougall
no middle here. There's

Eric MacDougall
no gray, exactly. And so even though it's like, you know, part of you is saying, like, hey, like, my work is, you know, getting more comfortable with my discomfort and blah, blah, blah, I have that too, but in another aspect, except it's flipped, yeah, my discomfort is to be okay with things just being neutral. Yeah. It's like, it's okay that we're not, like, gonna connect 1,000% Yeah, it's okay that like, Kate's not asking me a bunch of generative questions all the time. It's okay that Kate and I are just going to bed and reading on our tablets tonight, right? And that is me like, I need to stop believing that because I'm not feeling super, super excited and in love all the time, that there's a problem. And so as you can see, what happens is I also have my own growth to do, which is, and I say this to a lot of people, like, sometimes you have to accept that a long term relationship is going to be monotonous,

Kate MacDougall
yeah? And a lot of times too. Sometimes in your long term relationships, you'll notice that those thresholds are actually opposites, yeah, like, you have more ability for discomfort, I have very little ability for discomfort. When it comes to like, you know, conflict and just uncomfortable situations. And but my ability for comfort when things are kind of just neutral and like, you know, we're just going with the flow is much, much. It's easier for me to feel comfortable in that than it is for you. And so we're like opposites, right? And

Eric MacDougall
the opposite is true too, where my comfort level with bringing stuff up is very, very high. Yeah, I'm totally okay with bringing problems up all the

Kate MacDougall
time. Yeah, you're like, This might, like, paid off. And like,

Eric MacDougall
I'm like, you know, I kind of, I'm really angry with you, and I resent you. And that was just like to you. I was like, What is going on right now? Like, you know what I mean? And but for you to say that to me, like, you can't, you can never say that you're angry with me. No, like, that was one thing that I thought was really weird. I'm like, Wow, I'm like, a horrible human and you've never said I'm angry with you, but it was like, because your tolerance to express that, yeah, was extremely low. Yeah, because to you, for you saying I'm angry with you growing up, you were probably told, like, that's not okay. You said that you can't say that you need to be different, as opposed to me growing up, it was like I need to tell people that, because that was a way to kind of control them and get in their face, right? So my adaptation was to say things. And so, as you can see, we all have these adaptations, and we all have our growth to do. And I think recently, certainly over the last, you know, month, but especially over the last two weeks, we are starting to get in touch with the way that we each sabotage our relationship in our lives. Yeah,

Kate MacDougall
and it's opening up that can of worm. It's tough. It's it's not easy, and it's like, who like, are we gonna, are we gonna get out of this soon? Because my discomfort level is getting to its max. Like, I'm maxing out. Like, I'm like, I can't, I can't be in this anymore. Like I need to, like, get, I need to find a happy medium, like, neutral ground. And so that's why I'm, like, fighting, fighting, fighting to go back to that, like, beep, that neutral that, like, there's no drama. Everything's good. Nothing's great, nothing's terrible. We're just there. We're just coasting, and I'm fighting hard to get back to that. But what I'm realizing is that fight for me to get back to that is not going to get a relationship to where it's evolving to, nor is it going to get me to my full potential.

Eric MacDougall
Yeah, and I think, like on the opposite side of things, you know, last night we got an argument and kind of repaired somewhat, and then connected at night. But what I said after I had brought that up, you know, I kind of apologized, and I said, like, I'm sorry that I brought that up. It was not the time to brought that up. We had plans to connect all day. You were saying how much you want to connect. We have felt disconnected lately, and tonight would have been. Perfect night to, like, sit watch a movie, chill out, be close, and instead, like, I couldn't regulate my own internal system, so I had to bring something up, and ended up sabotaging most of our night with like, intense conversations and back and forth and arguments,

Kate MacDougall
yeah, and which, I hope people see that that is the exact same thing as what I do when I'm extremely quiet and saying nothing. Yeah, you bringing it up and being like, I need to talk about this right now is the exact same thing as I do when I'm feeling very angry at you and like, I'm not gonna say anything. I'm just gonna be very quiet and not ignore you. But just like, we're not, we're just not gonna talk about this. It's the exact same thing. And

Eric MacDougall
what probably would have been, you know, again, listeners, you might be saying, like, Well, yeah, well, were you just supposed to keep that in actually, what would have been appropriate is for me to say, Hey, I'm kind of feeling this right now. So I don't know how I'm going to connect with you tonight, but I'm open, and I really want to make time on the calendar to talk about this. So is there a time like tomorrow, maybe in the afternoon,

Kate MacDougall
and you're doing it right away, putting it on the calendar, and then, yeah, Eric, tomorrow at

Eric MacDougall
1pm we can have a serious conversation. So now that you have that commitment from me, can we just like, chill tonight and have a good time, whatever feels good, no pressure, but like, let's put this, compartmentalize this on the side right now and try to connect. And I think that would have been healthier for me, for you, for our relationship, than what happened last night, which was, I can't hold this in anymore. I gotta tell something. I gotta say something. And at

Kate MacDougall
the same time, I would have probably made for a healthier conversation where you're not coming off as aggressive as you did yesterday, because you've had time to digest you've had time to sit on it. Think about your words, you know, calculate your words, make sure that they're kind and gentle and, you know, respectful versus when you blurt something out and you're just like, I'm so angry about Darcy, you're like, Whoa. And

Eric MacDougall
because you were prepared for it as well, you probably would have been able to receive it a bit more. I mean, like, okay, Eric's gonna talk to me about

Kate MacDougall
received it like a freaking champ last night. You did.

Eric MacDougall
I'm not saying, I'm saying maybe more would have been even better, more than right? I don't know. I don't know, I don't know what your experience was, but I'm saying, like, at least for me, when I'm prepared for something, I tend to experience that moment. Oh, exactly. Then it's like, Wow, where did this come from? Now I have to regulate and deal with it well, yeah,

Kate MacDougall
especially, like, last night, me going, like, Hey, we're gonna hang out. And that's exactly what happened. It was like, Hey, we're gonna hang out. We're gonna hang out. Are you ready to hang out? Really ready? And I was like, I'm like, jump in front of you like a puppy dog waiting to hang out. And then you turn around and you're like, and I was like, Whoa. That was, that was like, super unexpected, like my all day. I was like, we're hanging out. We're hanging out. And you just like, bam. And I was like, Whoa. That was not expected, yeah. So I think as

Eric MacDougall
we're kind of wrapping up this episode, you know, for all you listeners who are listening, we're getting to the end of the year. We're stepping into a new year, right? All this kind of transformation is happening in terms of our the dates and stuff. And I think it's important. And our challenge to you is, think about your own life, right? Take stock of your own life. What are some things maybe, that you really loved about this last year. What are some things that you want to do differently, or maybe even some things that you've been avoiding that have to be faced? Or maybe, if you're like me, the anxious partner, right? Maybe there's things that you think need to be changed but really don't right now, right? Maybe that's just more about you than it is about your partnership, and only you can possibly know that right by looking yourself in the mirror and saying, Hey, is this actually just my anxiety that's constantly happening and I need this thing to happen in order to keep myself calm and comfortable and safe, or is this actually an issue that is like a make or break for me, right? And then, as you're going into the holiday season, right? Think about how you want to show up. Think about, you know, for me, I'm thinking about how much joy I want to bring and how that might be a little weird. A little weird and uncomfortable, but I have to do things differently in order to evolve to the next level of myself, right? And so that would be our advice to you as you're kind of heading into the holidays, is, take

Kate MacDougall
stock, yeah? Listen to that gut feeling like, listen to that like instinct of like, Hmm, something's not working here, and really analyzing it, analyze it, think about it, get right down to the nitty gritty of it. Yeah. And

Eric MacDougall
bonus, I mean, if you have somebody in your life that you trust and you can openly talk and they can ask you some questions, you know that has been a big part of our journey, is we each have friends that challenge us and help us think differently. And so find somebody you trust and kind of open up what's going on for you and say, Hey, things don't feel right. It doesn't mean you have to. Doesn't mean you have to solve them right away, but just bringing them into awareness, talking them out, often helps you get a bit more clarity, because they get out of your head, and then you can really start to think about how it's impacting your life. Yeah.